Developing Your Physical Location with Jeremy Burroughs

|| Developing Your Physical Location || 

[00:00:00] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Hello and welcome to Crystal Podcast on I Code Media Sounds. Hello and welcome to Crystal Podcast on I Code Media. Today I had a great conversation with Jeremy Buroughs from Car Real Estate. Uh, it was a lot of fun for me. I learned a bunch. Please enjoy our conversation. As always, be sure to subscribe to the podcast, write a review, share it with your friends, and support those.

[00:00:25] Who support 

[00:00:26] Jeremy Burroughs: us.

[00:00:35] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Listen, if you’re trying to enhance a protocol in your practice and you’re trying to answer whether or not you can, Integrate this protocol in a way that allows you to take care of patients who have both medical and managed vision care needs. We’ve got the thing for you. It’s called Total patient care i code education.com.

[00:00:54] We also have a mastermind group that is quickly forming and quickly filling up. For this summer, that’s gonna start and launch on June 1st, so don’t wait. Get access. We’ll have a coupon code now in the show notes that will allow you to access that at a discount and jump on board with the Summer Mastermind total patient care group.

[00:01:14] It will help you answer the questions that you’re struggling with, with in your practice. To integrate new protocols and new disease state management, check it out. I code education.com. That’s E Y E C O D E. education.com.[00:01:30] 

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[00:02:25] I, I think that there’s a lot of optometrists that are kind of thinking through how do we negotiate properties, how do we own properties? It’s something that we do so infrequently that it can be a challenge when you do it. So knowing what we can negotiate, what we, what’s harder to negotiate in this sort of market, I think will be worthwhile having a, a discussion on 

[00:02:46] Jeremy Burroughs: absolutely.

[00:02:47] I mean, I, you know, I don’t know about you, but, uh, so far I haven’t met any optometrists who after they got out of residency, they’re like, yeah, you know, we also had, you know, about 120 hours of, uh, training in real estate while we were, you know, in residency. [00:03:00] It just doesn’t seem to happen. Um, so you know that that’s pretty common.

[00:03:03] That, and it’s not just, you know, it’s not just optometry. It, it’s dental, it’s veterinary, it’s medical, you know, it’s chiropractic, it’s every healthcare professional. You guys are trained. To in a very specific field in a, in as a clinician to do a very specific thing, and that’s where your focus is. But unfortunately, it’s a bit of a disservice for those who are gonna come out, who are going to also be small business owners, and that’s what you guys are for the most part, optometrists are small business owners as well as clinicians.

[00:03:34] Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:03:35] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: And I, so that kind of really leads me into, in this market right now, if, if you were gonna, like, let’s say you identified, so I want to, we’ll get to kind of leasing in a second cuz I think it’ll build on our 

[00:03:46] Jeremy Burroughs: conversation related to purchasing. But let’s say you had 

[00:03:49] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: identified, yeah, a piece of land.

[00:03:52] That you could build on. Mm-hmm. Uh, what would be the, the types of questions that, that we should think about or that we should ask to just know? All right. Is this a, is this a valuable or is this a good 

[00:04:03] Jeremy Burroughs: investment? Yeah. Okay. Well, it’s, it’s funny, I actually just got done teaching a, uh, course about this at our national training on land because I, I think I’ve done more land deals than, uh, than anyone else in our company.

[00:04:15] So I, I didn’t realize we were gonna be hitting this today. So it’s, it’s just a perfect timing on that. But I. You’ve gotta understand what is your goal with the land. Okay? You’re not buying land to say, Hey, I now have this half acre, one acre piece of commercial property sitting [00:04:30] over here, and I’m going to use it to have picnics on Sundays.

[00:04:32] No, you’re not. You’re not buying land as an asset. Yes, it is an asset. In fact, it’s one of the best assets, uh, that you can invest in because without something extremely detrimental happening to the land, like toxic waste being dumped on or something, uh, it’s going to not only retain its value, but it will.

[00:04:48] It will actually increase in value. Will always appreciate. Uh, it’s one of the few things that, uh, you know, we tell our, our clients, they, they find out when we, you know, buy a building or, or we do a project like this, uh, they find out from their CPA that they ha we have to put a value on the land because that can’t be depreciated.

[00:05:04] Cuz land does not depreciate, for the most part, it only appreciates whereas the building and everything else on it is going to depreciate. So that’s the first thing we look at is, well, why are you buying the land? You’re not? You’re not buying the land as an asset. Some people do. There’s a lot of people who buy land as assets and they just let it sit.

[00:05:19] And for that, that’s an investment purchase. Well, you’re buying this to build your practice on, to build a building on maybe to build something that’s more than just your practice. It’s a, it’s a larger building, maybe a retail strip or something like that. You’re wanting to get into more of almost tough, you know, investment, um, real estate.

[00:05:37] But what you’re doing is you’re looking at this from the point of. What am I going to do with the land? How can I accomplish my goal as quickly as possible? And for the most part, that it’s probably not going to be just going out and buying the dirt. Uh, it, it’s going to be working with some, you know, uh, say you come to us, we sit down, we go, okay, doc, what are you wanting to do?

[00:05:59] You want to do a, [00:06:00] you know, 2,500 square foot clinic? Oh, you’re also wanting to do a little extra space as well. Okay, well, let’s sit down. Let’s. Figure out, are we gonna work with a developer? Do we need to go get an architect? Do we need to, uh, you know, do some initial, uh, due diligence just to find out if this, you know, is a zone properly?

[00:06:14] Or, or do we have any easement issues? I mean, there’s lots of things that come into play with land. I’ll tell you that that’s one of the most complicated, um, purchases that you could do in commercial real estate is land. It buildings are easy. Okay? Buildings. So buying land and building something that’s tough.

[00:06:31] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: And so you said, you know, you, you, you brought in a couple other things. You talked about, okay, well we do, we use an architect or a developer. Describe the differences from your perspective of what would be, why would you use one over the 

[00:06:42] Jeremy Burroughs: other? Absolutely. That that’s, and really that’s two different models really.

[00:06:48] It’s kind of an architect driven model. Versus a, uh, a developer, I’ll call it a developer. The word developer, honestly, it has different meanings of different people. We’ll just call it the, uh, build to suit model. Okay? Because the build to suit model could use just a build to suit contractor. It could use a person who’s actually a developer who says, Hey, look.

[00:07:06] I’m the guy who takes it from raw land to finished product. I deliver you finished product ready to go. I think almost like a custom home. You know, when somebody goes and and says, man, I wanna build a home on that piece of land over there. Well, they hire a home builder who, who helps ’em do all that. And the home builder says, yeah, sure.

[00:07:22] Go talk to that architect. Here’s, you know, here’s the architect over here we use, and, and I’ll start having my guys look in engineering and they, they kind of have a team already [00:07:30] around them that is doing. The architect, the engineering, the, you know, help you with design, help you, you know, interior design, picking out all the different stuff that you need to pick out as opposed to going and doing a, a, what would I call, architect driven model, which is someone who’s going to say, man, I want to go and I’m gonna, I’m gonna go with an architect and I’m gonna start spending money with an architect, and we’re going to design this building to hopefully fit this piece of land, you know, and hopefully you’ve got a piece of land already picked out.

[00:08:00] Believe it or not, I’ve actually had clients who did not have a piece of land picked out. They just went and designed a building. Which is wonderful. You can always design a building, but then now you have to hope that the piece of land that you’re going to buy fits it and, and it doesn’t always do it, you know, because of easements and, and ingress and egress and all these other things.

[00:08:18] It doesn’t always work that way. And so I always caution somebody, please don’t go start spending money until you’ve at least picked out a couple of options as to where you’re, you’re going to put this building. But that’s really a difference is, is an architectural driven model is all about design and it’s all about let’s get the building exactly the way we want it.

[00:08:36] And I, I would say people who are. Who are just not detail oriented, but, but let’s just say who want to control every single little step of the process and who, who wanna be involved with every little step of the process. Maybe an architecturally driven model could be better for them because they’re gonna have to do a lot.

[00:08:55] You’re gonna have to be involved in a lot of that stuff. Whereas a build a [00:09:00] suit model tries to take your budget in mind, tries to take, uh, you know, as many tries to make, put as many things together as we can. That way you’ve got one guy that you’re dealing with who then has the, uh, he has the architect, he has the engineer, he has the team, the construction company a lot of times as well, and can just deliver that product within a budget as opposed to, Let’s just go design a beautiful building and then, you know, then we have to get it priced out and we find out, ooh, it, uh, priced out a lot higher than what we expected.

[00:09:30] So now I gotta go back to the architect, do more redesigns. And it’s just, it’s a different model. There’s not one that’s better than the other. There’s just certain people that are going to gravitate towards different models, and as an agent, my job is to have my client’s fiduciary, their best interest at heart and to look at them and, and kind of help them go.

[00:09:49] Yeah. You’re more of a, you’re more of a build a suit type of guy, or, or no, you, you’re, You’re gonna wanna control every little part of this process. You probably should go, let’s work with an architect. And then you get to pick your engineering, you get to pick your design company, you know, your interior designer, and you get to do all of this and, and you’re gonna control the loan.

[00:10:06] You’re gonna, you know, you’re gonna have to cut checks, all that stuff. 

[00:10:10] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Yeah. I would say that, you know, just from my, because having not done that, um, I, I would, I would say it’s very similar to, you want to. Function as remodeling your house and you’re gonna function as the sort of general contractor and you’re gonna find all the subs, general contractor versus hiring a general contractor and [00:10:30] letting him 

[00:10:30] Jeremy Burroughs: do everything else.

[00:10:33] Yeah. And you know, the funny thing about that is cuz the, the D iy approach is honestly what we see as one of the biggest hangups in, in healthcare in, in, in real estate because, Let’s just, let’s just face it. Uh, healthcare professionals are very good. You guys are great at what you do. You’re extremely intelligent people.

[00:10:54] And what happens sometimes is when you’re extremely intelligent, you start going, well, I can do that, I can do that, I can do that. And yes, you can, but at the same time, is it worth your time? Yeah. Are, are you actually getting the best pricing on these things is, I mean, just as a real estate professional, I’ll tell you right now, when, uh, I do commercial real estate when it comes to residential real estate, I don’t touch it.

[00:11:16] I don’t go anywhere near I That is not, that is, I am not, even though I, I could handle that. I’m gonna hire somebody else to do that because there are so many little nuances about that, that I don’t deal with on a day-to-day basis that they’re going to know the market better, they’re going to know pricing better.

[00:11:33] And when you hire a general contractor, for the most part, instead of being your own GC and uh, and going and, and hiring each individual sub, you actually get better pricing from those contractors. I mean, cuz those subs. They work for that general contractor all the time. You’re a one job guy. So, I mean, I, I, I know this because my family has a history in construction.

[00:11:53] I’m, I’ve got multiple, uh, family members who are in construction and when I hire a single contractor, my pricing’s [00:12:00] not as good as the pricing that that sub gives the general contractor, cuz that general contractor’s employing him on 15, 20 jobs a year. Yeah. 

[00:12:08] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Yeah. I mean that all makes sense. I think the, so then, you know, so the next step is you, you’ve identified the land.

[00:12:14] You decide that you’re going to kind of do this, uh, all in one, like, you know, we’ll call it a general contractor cuz that’s my, the way my brain thinks. Yeah. What, what do you do next? Exactly. I mean, so do you buy the land first? Do you go to the bank first to do the whole project? Like what, what is 

[00:12:30] Jeremy Burroughs: typical in this sense?

[00:12:33] Well, I, I’ll tell you that for our clients, We will, the moment a client comes to us and, and you know, let’s just say you’re my client and you came to me and said, Jeremy, I want to go buy some lay in and build a building. I’m gonna say, great, Chris, who’s the bank that’s financing this? That’s gonna be my first question.

[00:12:48] Mm-hmm. Okay. Because if we don’t have that lined out, and at least. Have your financials to the bank, have it where they’ve taken a look at it and they’ve given us just kind of a shoot from the hip number of Yeah, no, absolutely. Uh, you know, you could do easily a 1.5, you know, maybe up to a 2 million project without too much, you know, uh, without pushing your finances too much.

[00:13:09] Well, that gives us the information we need to even go find, what land are we looking at? Cuz land varies greatly in its price. Mm-hmm. So what land can we even look at? And then it lets us know. Well, should we be going at more of a, uh, just a, a project for you, uh, a larger project? Uh, you know what, what, what are we wanting to do [00:13:30] here?

[00:13:30] So that budget honestly should guide everything. So the bank, and in our estimation, every time a person comes to us and they have not gone to the bank, that’s the first thing I’m telling ’em. Let’s go to the bank. Let’s do that. I’ll start doing initial research. I’ll start bringing up our options. But it, it’s the same way as if you, you go to have a, a real estate agent on the residential side.

[00:13:51] You wanna go buy a house or you wanna buy Lynn and build a house, they’re gonna go, great. What are you pre-approved for? And, and that’s because without that number, we’re just shooting in the dark and, and we can be showing you great pieces of land that can’t even fit your budget. 

[00:14:05] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Right. Right. Yeah. And so, uh, so that’s very helpful.

[00:14:08] And so then let’s say that, um, you, you, you’ve done that, you’ve gone to the bank, um mm-hmm. Are banks Yeah. You know, with professional buildings, like let’s say you’re gonna build a professional building, uh, and you were gonna house Yeah. Maybe the option of. You know, three to four different professions in it.

[00:14:24] Maybe, uh, it’s, it’s gonna be a professional building and you got some extra space for other people. Um, are there still banks that are doing, I mean, I’ve seen some stuff from a few banks where they’ll, they’ll 

[00:14:35] Jeremy Burroughs: finance the whole thing. Absolutely. Is that still common financing? It, it, it’s, no, it’s not common.

[00:14:43] Um, there are some banks who do that. Uh, so, so you’ve, you brought up something in that question that really is going to be the divergent point of, of really these projects. And that is, are you doing a project that houses either [00:15:00] only you or where you will occupy at least 51% of that project? Okay. So you could bill, let’s just say you wanted, you know, pretty standard optometry office, you know, 2,500 square feet.

[00:15:10] You want 2,500 square feet. But you go, man, all of my buddies are telling me that, you know, I should have more lease base in this building. You know, I, it’ll help pay for my own, you know, my mortgage, which is true. And so we go, okay, great. So we’re gonna build a 5,000 square foot building. That way you can occupy 2,500 square feet, we’ll say 25 0 1 that way.

[00:15:28] Mm-hmm. You’re just over that 50% margin. That is considered owner occupied real estate. Okay. Owner-occupied real estate is financed at a totally different level than investment real estate. So owner-occupied is what you’re talking about, where a lot of these banks can do a hundred percent financing. I say a lot.

[00:15:46] A few of the banks can do a hundred percent financing. The standard for owner-occupied. Is a bank will do, uh, 80 to 85% ltv. So that’s a loan to value. So they will loan, if the project, you know, the whole project’s gonna cost, let’s just say $1 million, they will loan you 850,000 of that. That’s the maximum.

[00:16:03] They’ll go, you have to bring 150,000, you know, down payment to the table. Well, if you have a bank who’s doing a hundred percent, they’re probably doing, they’re, they’re, what they’re doing is, uh, one of two things. It’s either going to be a type of s b a loan. Where sba you can get a lot lower down payments.

[00:16:20] You, um, there’s different, you know, different things that go with that. Typically higher interest rates, but it’s a, a longer term, it’s a 25 year fixed term. Uh, as banks like Live Oak who [00:16:30] do, uh, you know, a lot of SBA lending and optometry and a lot of other healthcare professions, but then any bank can do an SBA loan.

[00:16:36] But there’s two different types of them. But let’s just put that aside. So it’s either an SBA loan or it could be. That you’re doing, um, a conventional loan, if they’re gonna achieve that a hundred percent financing, it’s, they’re going to have to pull that money from somewhere. And normally what they’re doing is they’re looking at the value of your practice and they’re actually borrowing against that.

[00:16:56] Okay? So you’re still, in essence, really putting down payment on it, but you’re not putting cash on the table. Okay? It, it’s coming because you’ve got a practice that’s already going that’s worth a certain amount of money. So startups, it’s probably not gonna be, it is not gonna work for a startup. But a, a practice is already going, you know, say you’ve been practicing for three years, five years, seven years.

[00:17:14] Well, they simply look at that and they can value that practice and go, yeah, you’ve got X amount of collections. Cool. Yeah, you can, uh, you know, your practice is worth this much. We’ll borrow against that. And, and it’s a great way to do it. I mean, honestly, Chris, this is, this is very, um, Smart banking for them to be able to do it.

[00:17:30] But not that many banks can do that because not that many banks. It’s complex. Understand healthcare and the, your cash flow, it’s very complex and we, yeah, we work with the banks who do that because some of our clients, they really want that. And so we, Hey, here’s the a hundred percent financing option.

[00:17:44] Some of ’em go, no, I I wanna put 10, 15% down because I want to get the lower interest rates. I wanna get the better terms. Cuz you typically get a little better terms, you know, when you’re putting cash on the table. Yep, of course, of course. And so then they, they’ll go at it that way. Yeah. 

[00:17:58] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: So then, so then, okay.

[00:17:59] [00:18:00] So, uh, that kind of brings us into where I wanna transition a bit and talk about what you were expecting to talk about, which is leasing. Cuz then we get to kind actually have the conversation about leasing as the owner, right? Like, what do I want if I own this building That’s right. I wanna lease to myself, but also lease to, you know, other, other docs that might be occupying space.

[00:18:20] Mm-hmm. But then I also have to take into account Yeah. The fact that I’m leasing from myself so, And a fair market value. Right. So let’s, let’s walk through that. What, what types of things would I, as the building owner want to, uh, want to consider and then also as the Li Li lessee want to consider as well?

[00:18:39] Jeremy Burroughs: I. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You’re, you’re less sea and less sore. It’s a, you know, I, I love it when my, uh, clients, you know, we, we sit there and talk about it and, and the different hats they have to put on, and the biggest thing I’ll tell you, okay, so let’s just take the example of, uh, you, you are your own.

[00:18:57] Building, you’re your own tenant because that, that will play in, in all the other scenarios. Yep. So you, you are the owner of the building. You have a mortgage. That mortgage is gonna have principles, it’s gonna have interest. That the way we look at this, we go, okay, so as a, you know, as the owner of the building, you’re gonna have to pay that much money to the bank regardless, no matter what.

[00:19:18] So, as the tenant, so as a, as a landlord, you wanna make sure that your tenant is covering over that number. Because you want profit too, cuz you’re a landowner, right? So you want profit on your investment. So you [00:19:30] want to look at that and, and the principle and interest payment that you pay monthly, that is the bare minimum that you want your practice to be paying to your holding company, your, your llc, that you’re holding company for the building.

[00:19:42] So that’s the minimum. It’s easy to set it up on something called a triple net lease, where basically the tenant is responsible for all utilities in their own name, okay? And, and the tenant pays their pro rata share of taxes, insurance, and commonary maintenance, which basically all the expenses the tenant pays.

[00:20:00] And then the landlord really is just responsible for, uh, you know, for the building itself and, and taking care of it. And if they, uh, you know, if they have to, uh, you know, retrip the parking lot or something like that, well that goes into commonary maintenance. So it all gets pushed back to your tenant. In that sort of triple net lease, which is, is kind of what you want.

[00:20:16] You don’t, you don’t want it to be anything where you’re left at the end of the year going, oh man, I, I should have charged myself more as a tenant. Uh, cuz I had some expenses that came up as a landlord that I didn’t, didn’t pass that direction. So that’s the minimum. Now the maximum, what I would tell my clients is, Charge yourself as much as we can justify as a market rate.

[00:20:39] Okay, I’m gonna, I’m using the wonderful air quotes because a market rate is a very, it’s a very, uh, you know, objective thing. It’s like, Hey, really what is a market rate? It’s what a landlord and a tenant agreed to. But there is some parameters, uh, you know, or there, there are some parameters that the IRS will look at, right?

[00:20:57] And so your CPA will, will, uh, look at [00:21:00] this and go, Uh, you’re charging yourself $60 a square foot, uh, for your, your, um, uh, you know, your rent. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of those in this market. So, you know, you can get, with a professional, we can kind of help you set that market rate, but honestly, as long as you’re not grossly outside of that market rate, the the, you’re not gonna raise any red flags.

[00:21:18] I, you could easily, as a, as a landlord say, well, I wanna receive, you know, 25% profit on my money. And so you look at your principle and interest. Multiply that times 1.25, that’ll get you a 25% interest on your, uh, on your investment that you, that you’ve had here. And as long as that number is not hurting the practice, well then do it right?

[00:21:39] Because all you’re doing is you’re increasing your rent, which increases your tax deductions as a tenant, you’re putting more money that is necessary into the holding company that, uh, that pays the mortgage, so for you as well. So you’re pulling outta your right pocket, putting it in your left pocket, and then at the end of the year, If there’s money left over, which there should be in that, in that, uh, that LLC that is the holding company for, you know, for the building, well now you can take that and you can pay down the, the principle faster instead of just go that way.

[00:22:11] So you’re really kind of maximizing your deductions on, on all sides. Now, I’m not a cpa, neither do I play one on tv, so please make sure you always. Uh, get with your CPA and you talk to him about those strategies and what works best cuz the, you never want to, the big thing is your practice is the driving engine.

[00:22:29] You [00:22:30] never want to hurt your practice. You never want to cash flow strap your practice for the building. And we have this happen all the time where clients come to us and want to go from leasing to owning and their, their appetite for the building is larger than what they should do for their practice.

[00:22:43] And so we have to kind of help them bring that down and go, no, no, no, no. Practices first. Yes, this is a great investment. Yes, real estate, this is a wonderful building. But at the end of the day that you have to stroke that check for principle and interest first before you can get the payment. And so it’s all gotta work out.

[00:22:58] Really, it kind of has to cash flow for that whole year. It can’t just be every month. You’re, you’re passing it back and forth cuz it, it, it’s gonna get tied and you don’t want that to happen. 

[00:23:07] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Right, right. So, um, sorry. Let’s say, you know, it’s hard when you’re negotiating with yourself, but let’s say that.

[00:23:16] Jeremy Burroughs: Yeah, 

[00:23:16] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: you don’t own the building. You, if we transition into saying, all right, well, I, I can’t, I can’t own a building yet, but maybe I, I want to renegotiate the existing lease. You know, it’s time up and I’m, I’m about ready to re-sign. What are negotiables in this market? 

[00:23:36] Jeremy Burroughs: Well, the, the old adage is everything’s negotiable.

[00:23:39] Okay. And that’s not true. Yeah. There’s, there’s a lot of things that I’ve learned that are negotiable learned. Um, Yeah, there’s a lot of things that are negotiable and there are some things that are non-negotiable, especially when it comes to a third party. So when there’s a landlord and, and this is what we deal with a lot, especially in certain markets.

[00:23:56] Certain markets are high, high leasing and just the national average, just, [00:24:00] you know, so you’re aware the national average for, uh, optometrists leasing their spaces, it’s gonna be about 80%. 80% of all optometrists here are going to lease their specs. Only 20% out. Now what you’ll find is in different areas of the country, that number may push up to a hundred percent because there’s no way they’re owning, you know, uh, most optometrists are never gonna be able to buy, um, a, a building in Orange County, California, eh, you know, unless you’ve got one heck of a practice going.

[00:24:26] But then you hit markets like mine and in Oklahoma where. No, we’ve got probably around, uh, 30, 40% ownership that they could very easily. And so that’s, you know, and that’s where you’re gonna average out there. But the thing that we’re going to as an agent, I’m always going to go after is, is that it, it’s a balancing act.

[00:24:44] I always tell my, my clients, it really, it. Think of a, a panel, you know, a wall that has a, a panel on it, and it’s got levers all over. It’s got about, you know, seven or eight different levers. Well, if I really want to pull the lever down of, of lease rate, now I really need to get that lease rate down. Well, consequently, another lever is gonna go up somewhere else for the landlord.

[00:25:04] Mm-hmm. It may be that the landlord goes, okay, well if the lease rate’s going down, I can’t give you $50 a square foot in tenant improvement allowances. Oh, okay. Well, so if, if my client says, man, I, I need to, you know, I’m doing a startup, so it’s a startup client, and he goes, man, I, I, it’s gonna cost us $185 a square foot to build out the space.

[00:25:25] You know, I’ve got the space where I need it, but you know, the loan that I’m getting from the bank’s only giving me [00:25:30] x amount of dollars for buildout. That’s not even enough to cover it. So then what we’re gonna say is, okay, we need to bring that lever down of ti and really get as much ti as possible, but at the same time, that means the lease rate’s gonna go up a little bit.

[00:25:42] So it’s just, it’s really figuring out where the financials are and, and what is going to work for the tenant because, When we’re talking tenant improvement, allowances, free rent, buildout period, which is also a form of free rent. We’re talking about the lease rate, exclusivity clauses, um, HVAC and electrical, you know, all these kind of things that are, that are built into how the landlord’s gonna deliver the space to us.

[00:26:08] All of this stuff, it’s just, it’s all dollars and cents. It all comes down to dollars and cents. Right? And then really the, the, the biggest factor that helps us get more concessions from landlords is length of term. Okay. Right. When you, when you say, man, I’m, I only wanna do a three year lease. Well, when you’re doing a three year lease, there’s not a lot of wiggle room in, in there for, for lease rate.

[00:26:30] Uh, you know, there’s, there’s not a lot of, uh, incentive for the landlord to give you a lower lease rate and give you certain concessions at the same time. That’s why in healthcare it’s pretty common to have seven and 10, sometimes even 15 year leases. But that seven to 10 year range is, is pretty common for most of our clients.

[00:26:46] What happens 

[00:26:47] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: if, um, let’s say that. The business sells, and I mean, who is, is, is it always. Is there a way out of that? So let’s say I, I [00:27:00] decide I’m gonna take a 10 year lease and then I sell my business, or God forbid it goes under. And, um, yeah, like who is, who’s on the hook for that? And like in terms of those longer term leases, uh, and, and do I have personal protections or, you know, when I’m out and somebody else, a new entity buys my business.

[00:27:23] Does that lease carry through with this new entity? How does that all 

[00:27:26] Jeremy Burroughs: work? Yeah. That’s a’s a great question, Chris, so that, that moves from the, the business points or that moves from the kind of the financial points of the lease that we talk about a lot. Everybody focuses on the financial points, you know, my lease rate, you know, how much ti am I getting, free rent, all that kind of stuff.

[00:27:43] And, and we need to have those where they, you know, where they necessarily need to be. Or else the deal just doesn’t pencil it from the beginning. But then now you’re looking at more of those, those business terms. Now these are things that sometimes we will negotiate on, but a lot of times we will work in tandem with the attorney because, you know, we’re negotiating through lois and things commercial.

[00:28:02] We, we don’t, you know, we don’t hand contracts back and forth like they do in residential. We negotiate with lois and RFPs and things that are completely non-binding until we get to the point where both sides have are going. Yeah, I think the basic deal points are gonna work here. Now if you know that this is something like, uh, let’s just say you’re, um, a doc who has been practicing for 20 years and you’re like, man, I, I only want practicing another five, but I need to, I need to renew my lease.

[00:28:29] I, I need [00:28:30] to, you know, man, this, this space is kind of old in these, I need to put new flooring, new trim, new paint. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot of money. I gotta thinking of this. I don’t wanna do that because I’m, I’m just gonna try to turn around and sell my practice, you know, here in the next few years.

[00:28:41] Anyways. Well, that is something where we get called an assignability clause, and that is something that will be in almost every lease and the language. There’s some boilerplate language that you’ll find in most of these things, but when we know that, uh, a person is looking to assign that lease, we’re looking to sell that practice anywhere in the term of, of the, uh, you know, of the lease or sometimes even if it’s.

[00:29:05] Not something that we know it’s gonna happen. Uh, we’ll just make sure there’s a little bit of language in there that says that the landlord can’t, uh, unreasonably withhold you assigning the lease to, uh, someone you sell the practice to. But if we know that that’s probably something coming up, we’re gonna push for even stronger assignability language, that, that basically has it, where you can assign the lease fully and wholly to another entity that is of like, kind, you know, who will buy your practice.

[00:29:30] It, it’s just, you know, we talk to the landlord about it most of the time. They don’t care if, if, right. You, they know that healthcare is the most stable tenant on the planet. And so just to go back to your, uh, you know, um, uh, something you said in your initial question that is, well, what happens if my practice goes under, first of all, that, that’s extremely rare.

[00:29:49] Yeah. That, I mean, very, very rare. That’s one of the reasons why we’re, we’re in healthcare is that you guys pretty much don’t go under, don’t fail. That’s why banks are willing to loan. [00:30:00] Five, six, $700,000 to students who have only been out for a few years, you know, who’ve got a little bit of experience to go start up a practice because they know the odds are in their favor of, of, you know, completing that practice and going 10, 15, 20 years.

[00:30:15] Right. And then if something does happen, they’re probably just gonna sell the practice anyways. They’re not just gonna close the doors. So that’s really the, the safeguard is you’ve got the assignability for when you sell the practice. So that way it, you’re now totally off the hook. And then most of the time there’s death and disability clauses and stuff like that.

[00:30:31] You know, let’s just, let’s take the worst case scenario. You know, let’s just say you, you died, well, you, you’ve got death and disability, you know, insurance that’s gonna cover, I mean, you’re probably gonna have a loan, maybe a loan in the practice, maybe the loan left on, you know, your startup, maybe you bought a practice and there’s still some loan left on that.

[00:30:46] It’s gonna pay off your debts. And, uh, you know, landlords are all the, they have, they’re subservient most of the time anyways, to all that stuff. So, You know, when you, when you think about it, it’s not like you’re, um, let’s just take the one example maybe that you were thinking of that wasn’t death and that is, uh, you know, Hey, my practice does fail.

[00:31:03] What am I going to do?

[00:31:08] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Young and emerging presbyopes can be tricky. These patients want and need additional help at near, but they can be resistant to solutions that create even mild distance blur. The MyDay multifocal lens has been great for our presbyopic patients. It allows those patients to transition into a multifocal more easily.

[00:31:27] We’ve had this lens now for long enough that we’ve [00:31:30] been able to see how simple transitions can be from an adaptation standpoint, from lower ad designs to higher ad designs. The MyDay multifocal material is CooperVision softest, one day hydrogel lens, and features aqua formm technology. Combining the unique balance of high oxygen permeability with natural wettability in one material, the result is a highly breathable lens that keeps our patient’s eyes looking clear, white, and healthy.

[00:31:59] So if you haven’t started utilizing MyDay Multifocal in your practice, I’d encourage you to reach out to your CooperVision 

[00:32:04] Jeremy Burroughs: representative to get started.

[00:32:11] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: As you know, patients with vitreous floaters are often frustrated by their symptoms. The challenges clinicians is to offer solutions for our patients, for vitreous floaters that are effective. But more often than not, the options of yag vitreolysis and vitrectomy are not practical because the benefits don’t outweigh the risks.

[00:32:31] That’s where Vitreous Health from Macu Health comes into play. Previously on the podcast, I’ve discussed the Flies study with Dr. John Nolan, and the bottom line is that I can be confident prescribing this for my patients with floaters because I can tell them a large randomized placebo control trial found that after six months of supplementation with Vitreous health, Floaters were reduced in size by approximately 30%, and 70% of patients had an improvement in their symptoms.

[00:32:57] Vitreous Health has been great for my patients [00:33:00] and we really feel like we have a viable option to treat patients with vitreous floaters now that we didn’t have before. If you’re not utilizing vitreous health for your patients, reach out to your Macia Health representative now. Uh, the, the next point I was going to go to is, is subletting.

[00:33:16] So, you know, let’s say you wanna move. Yeah. And you identified. Mm-hmm. Um, how much, when you’re negotiating on the front end, how much of that should you negotiate? Mm-hmm. Your ability to sublet and then what’s the average sort of boiler plate stuff that occurs within subletting? Yeah. So it’s like, man, I got three years left on my, on my existing lease, but I got this opportunity for a building over here that can be done in a year and a half’s.

[00:33:40] Right. There’s probably something good about me being able to control who comes into my space. Tell me about that. How 

[00:33:45] Jeremy Burroughs: does that all work? A hundred percent. A hundred percent, yeah. And that’s so the subletting, the assigning, there’s so much, so many of these clauses that are just boiler plate and these leases and, and what it will always come down to, and this is, uh, something we, we hear, uh, we hear clients sometimes will say, and a lot of times they’ll say it after their attorney, you know, they’ve talked that we’ve sent the lease over their attorney and it’s a non real estate attorney.

[00:34:07] It’s just their, their buddy who happened to be an attorney who’s reviewing their lease. Please, Chris, don’t do that. Please, anybody who’s listening to me in the sound of my voice, do not use your, but your buddy who’s the attorney, if he’s not a real estate attorney, to review your lease. Okay. Attorneys specialize just like doctors do.

[00:34:25] So, you know, he may be a great divorce law attorney or a great [00:34:30] litigator, but he doesn’t know what he’s looking at for the most part. I mean, he does, but he doesn’t know the standard language on a commercial lease. Find a guy who does that. I mean, we refer our client’s attorneys all the time. Just because we watch deals die in illegal, attorneys will blow these things up because they will go, this lease is totally in the landlord’s favor.

[00:34:50] What’s going on here? I, I, why would we sign such a lease? And, and that goes back to my first point. Yes, the lease will always be in the landlord’s favor. There are that language that is boiler ploy, uh, boiler play. When you’re a landlord, you’re gonna have a lease that’s in your favor, right? Because believe it or not, you’re, you’re in the most risk, okay?

[00:35:10] Not the tenant. You have the most risk. And so that language is in there. So when you get to that assignability and that, uh, subletting, basically it’s gonna say the tenant shall not under any means, uh, you know, a sign or sublet this, you know, uh, space, blah, blah, blah, blah. Without landlord’s prior approval.

[00:35:30] Okay, so that’s just kind of the normal, right? And then there’s an extra line that we can get in there that just kind of covers the majority of, of situations that is, and the landlord will not withhold that unreasonably, okay? Mm-hmm. So if you get that language in, it just says, and the landlord won’t, uh, withhold it unreasonably, that’s easy to, to go, Hey dude, I found a tenant who’s gonna pay, pay the rent.

[00:35:51] You can’t tell me that, that you know that they can’t come in here and do this unless you’re, unless they’re, you know, someone who’s bringing. Some [00:36:00] horrible use to the space or you know, something like that. Or it conflicts with another, you know, exclusivity in the area. So that’s the normal language that we can get added into it.

[00:36:08] And sometimes it’s already there because honestly, like I said, they don’t care. They just want right, somebody to fill the space and pay the rent. And as long as you’re doing that, they’re fine. And so really there’s, they’re very open to a lot of scenarios of subletting and assigning, um, especially to another, you know, if you’re assigning and you’re selling the practice, man, that’s another doctor coming in.

[00:36:27] They’re buying it. Or another entity, you know, that’s coming in that’s buying and, you know, may maybe private equity’s buying it or something like that. And then they’ve, if you know doctors who are gonna run it, they don’t care. They’re, they’re happy. They just don’t want this to, you know, You two, uh, to sublet it out to, you know, maybe a, a CBD shop when that’s gonna be the second or third Exactly.

[00:36:45] In their, uh, in their strip. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:36:48] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Yeah. I wonder where they, that actually, that brings up another, just another question. I, where the heck are they getting all that money? Like in Nebraska? This is crazy to me, and it must be just some, it’s like we’re talking about 

[00:37:00] Jeremy Burroughs: the CBD money. Yeah. 

[00:37:01] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: I mean, they, they talk about like big, you know, you talk about big tobacco and, um, but there’s, there’s, there’s no way a mom and pop.

[00:37:09] So in Nebraska, marijuana is not legal and CBD is, there’s no way they’re bringing in enough money to cover the lease on these spaces that they have. So there’s no way a mom and pop shop is opening. Oh, they are. There’s gotta be big, big, uh, marijuana money going into establish roots so that it’s crazy when it happens.

[00:37:29] Jeremy Burroughs: It’s crazy. They can [00:37:30] pull up. That’s exactly right. Yes. You’re exa, you’re exactly right. So I’m in, in Oklahoma, we only, uh, legalized medical marijuana two, four years ago. Uh, don’t, don’t quote me on that one. Uh, three, four years ago in the recent future, Or pass the recent pass. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, so yeah, it’s only been legal here medically for a while and every CBD shop almost turned into a, a dispensary.

[00:37:54] And, and yet you’re right that that’s exactly what they’re doing. They’re going in, they’re getting the foothold. Um, they’re finding out what landlords are amicable to this. Cuz not every landlord is amicable to it. And it’s not just that they have any type of, you know, philosophical, you know, problem with it.

[00:38:07] Most of the time it is that. They’re, they’re just someone who is a little worried that the bank will, uh, call their note because, you know, with marijuana being federally illegal, uh, if you have a mortgage on, so if you have a mortgage, uh, as a landlord on the entire property, and you have a. Tenant who’s breaking federal law.

[00:38:28] Mm-hmm. You can be held responsibly, like the bank can say, we’re calling the whole note, we can’t do that. Yeah. It rarely ever happens. This is something that, I mean, we even see now banks that are going as far as saying, Hey, we’re now the weed bank, we’re now loaning. Interesting. And then these are, yeah, F D I C insured banks.

[00:38:44] It’s, man, the landscape is really changing in that area. Um, you know, to depend upon what your feelings are on that stuff. But, uh, but yeah, it. It’s, but it still brings, most of those are CBD and vape shops and, and, and at the end of the day, [00:39:00] you look at it and, and landlords, like I said, they want tenants filling the spaces, which is why in every retail strip center, we always make a joke in our industry.

[00:39:06] It’s like, okay, so the first three tenants, they come in, it’s always a, a nail salon, donut shop, and a C B D. All that’s, yeah, there’s, there’s your first three tenants in any given retail space. And then outside of that, all right, here’s the massage therapist. Here’s the, it’s just, yeah, that’s, it is what it is.

[00:39:22] Yeah. Which is one of the reasons why we have to, we have to be very careful. I mean, our clients, I mean, you guys are, are running a, a very nice professional business. I mean, and it’s got Yeah, a good, especially optometry has a great retail component to it with selling high-end sunglasses and things like that.

[00:39:37] And you have to, you don’t have control over your neighbors for the most part. So you really have to be careful of what spaces you go into and, and we can’t get language into most of these leases that says, Hey, you know, promise you’re never gonna put this type of tenant in the space. The landlord’s like, Nope, it’s not happening.

[00:39:54] Yep. I will, I will put it there who I want to put in there. And you don’t get to tell me that the most we can get is maybe a write a first refusal on the space, uh, that’s adjacent to us to hopefully expand in, in the future if we need to. 

[00:40:06] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Yeah. Well, so I’m, I, you know, Jeremy. As a, as a kind of a lay person in this space.

[00:40:14] Um, what am I missing? What, what is something that we haven’t talked about that you’re like, Chris, this should be on your mind, whether you’re purchasing land, building a building, or just renegotiating leases. Yeah. What, what am I missing in 

[00:40:27] Jeremy Burroughs: all of this here? [00:40:30] Here’s the one thing that, that we haven’t talked about yet.

[00:40:33] I mean, cuz we, we honestly jumped into this really good conversation, Chris. I’ve really enjoyed this. Um, the thing, me too. That you need to be thinking about. Okay, so the number one thing that you need to be thinking about is as a non real estate professional on the buyer tenant side. Okay? Now, if you’re a landlord, if you own property and you’re looking to lease it out, you’re looking to sell it.

[00:40:53] This doesn’t apply to you, okay? You can go try to do it yourself all day long and, and, and hopefully save yourself maybe two, 3%, you know, something like that. Kinda like for sell by owner, own a house. I mean, I’ve, I’ve sold multiple homes. Myself prior to being licensed because, uh, once I, once I got into licensing, I’m like, yeah, I’m, I’m not doing that anymore now.

[00:41:11] Now I have to disclose, you know, a whole bunch of stuff. But, you know, so I did for sale by owner multiple times. And it’s something where I can save the two or 3% on my side. I’m still gonna have the, you know, the buyer’s agent come bring me a buyer, most likely. So I’m gonna pay them their commission happily.

[00:41:26] You bring me a buyer, I’m gonna pay you your commission. So as a landlord or seller, you could try to save some money by doing it yourself. But as a buyer or a tenant, you are not saving any money, right, ever. Right. By doing this yourself, you are hurting yourself because especially in commercial, so you know, residential, there’s, you know, there’s a lot of fsbo and all that kinda stuff out there.

[00:41:47] You don’t see for sale by owner in commercial, hardly ever. You see signs that say for lease for sale and it’s got Colliers and C B R E and N A I and Kuk and all these other guys on there. So that lets you know [00:42:00] that a professional investor who invests in real estate, who owns that building, he’s not even doing this himself.

[00:42:06] He’s hired a broker to represent him. And you think as a, as a healthcare professional, you’re gonna come in and and, and get the best deal from these guys. No, it’s not gonna happen. And so that’s the thing that no matter if you’re buying land, buying a building, doing a new lease, renewing a lease, that’s the one that most of our clients don’t, they don’t think about.

[00:42:26] Yeah. They, they honestly get caught off guard by the renewals. Because they, they signed that initial lease, they didn’t even know we existed. And then, you know, their lease comes up and, and what happens is that landlord is going to have a notification period that he has to let the tenant know that the lease is up and that he, he’s basically wanna find out if the tenant wants to stay.

[00:42:46] The tenant also has a notification period. Those two notification periods aren’t the same. Tenant typically has to let the landlord know about 180 days in advance if he’s gonna stay. And the landlord only has to say something to the tenant 90 days in advance. So basically they get to wait till you’re cornered.

[00:43:01] They get to wait till they’ve got, they’ve got you exactly where they want you, and then they, they go, yeah, they, they basically walk in with a new lease, 90 days from expiration slide, that new lease. Say, Hey doc, here you go. Here’s your new lease for the next five years. Take a look at that and uh, let me know if you have any questions, any problems.

[00:43:16] And then the doctor goes, oh, shoot. I, I, I forgot my lease was coming up this year. I, man, I, I was wanting to move to a better space, or man, I need, I’m growing like crazy. I need more space. And then now they’re 90 days out from basically their lease [00:43:30] expiring and the landlord being able to kick ’em out and they go, there’s nothing I can do.

[00:43:34] And so they kind of, you know, they go back and forth and maybe help, hopefully get the landlord to. Get ’em a new coat of paint, you know, in the, uh, in, in the, the space, not knowing that they’ve just left tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table. And so we come in when our clients, we help them renegotiate those leases, and we don’t wait till that renewal.

[00:43:55] We wanna do this a year in advance, maybe, maybe even a little over a year in advance. If a, if a person even mentions they want to own or, or do a building construction, I, I need to be talking to ’em two years in advance before they’re lease expiring, okay? So that way we can have all those things lined out before that happens.

[00:44:11] So that’s the number one issue. The number one problem. That our, our agent’s face is when we meet a client and they go, oh, if only I would’ve known you six months ago. If only I would’ve heard about you. You know, when I signed this lease, I’m, I’m two years into a five year lease. What can you do for me?

[00:44:30] And the answer’s nothing. I can do nothing to you. Yeah, and so I have to wait now until the right time period and then we can do this again. The good news is a lease is always going to renew. Most of the time it, it was shorter leases because landlords actually like to keep you on shorter leases. Then they don’t have to give as many concessions and they can kind of keep you on your toes and they’re always, you know, sending new, new lease renewals over to you.

[00:44:53] It’s, it very, there. There’s different tactics that you find out that, that landlords will use, but, which is why we use a lot of long-term [00:45:00] leases because for healthcare, it’s best to get that fixed cost secured for the next 10 years if we can. Because your rent or your mortgage payment, you know, your rent, especially your rent is typically your practice’s second highest expense.

[00:45:15] Payroll’s number one, right. Lease your mortgage is number two. And so if you can secure that for the next 10 years and know, Hey, I’ve done my best. I’ve negotiated ahead of time. I had a professional agent in there for me. He got me the best rate to most concessions, all of that. We have literally saved clients.

[00:45:32] I mean, I, my personal best is $430,000 saving a startup client, $430,000 on a 10 year lease. So from when their landlord, where the landlord started at his rent rate. To what, why got him down to the amount of concessions of tenant improvement, allowances of free rent, of all that kind of stuff totaled up to $430,000 for a startup dental suite.

[00:45:55] Wow. Okay. Two dentists going into his, uh, startup suite, but we’ve actually had 1.1 million I think was our company’s, uh, highest. That was on a medical one over 10 year. Wow. Saved him $110,000 a year. Yeah. And that was on a renewal, by the way, the $110,000 a year. And they thought that landlord was their best friend, honestly.

[00:46:13] Yeah. They, they’re like, oh man, no, the landlord’s great. Yeah, take a look at our lease. I’m sure you won’t find anything. And the problem was they signed that lease, uh, I think in like oh 5, 0 6, 0 7, something like that when rates were really high. And then this was in 2010, 10 or 11 when, you know, the market had [00:46:30] crashed.

[00:46:30] The lease rates were a very big difference. Well, the landlord doesn’t offer. To, to take your lease rate down. Right? He doesn’t just walk him and go, Hey, um, you know, Chris, the lease, you know, leasing market’s really kind of bad right now. I’m just really happy you’re here. We, uh, I’m gonna go ahead and drop your lease rate by a couple dollars a square foot cuz that’s kind of the market rate right now.

[00:46:49] So would you go ahead and consider staying here for five more years? No, that doesn’t happen. Annual increases every year is what happens. And so that’s something that if you don’t get ahead of it, if you don’t have the right timing and the right posture, it’s not just timing, it’s timing and posture. When you, uh, when you go after this, I, it’s going to fail miserably.

[00:47:10] And that landlord’s gonna say, Nope, not gonna do it. Nope. Go find another space and you’re gonna think, oh my gosh, this guy’s, he’s just unwielding. He’s, he’s gonna, he’s gonna kick me out. And really, he’s sweating bullets that any of his healthcare tenants are gonna leave. And so we just have to have the right posture.

[00:47:25] And, and when you have a, when you’ve hired an agent that lets him know, you now know what’s going on. That agent knows the market. He’s now told you what the market is. You guys are out there looking at other stuff. It’s not just you as a doctor going. You know, uh, hey, could I, could I get a little bit less on that rent rate?

[00:47:43] Maybe, uh, you know, could you put some new carpet and paint in here? No. That it’s a totally different posture. 

[00:47:49] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Yeah. So, Jeremy, when my listeners need to, uh, renegotiate their leases a year in advance before their Yeah. Their leases up. How do they get ahold of you? [00:48:00] Where, 

[00:48:00] Jeremy Burroughs: where do people find you? Simple man car, us, c a r r.us.

[00:48:06] You go right there and then you can go up to the top and click find an agent. And we have agents across the nation. We transact in all 50 states. In fact, um, hopefully by the, by the end of this summer, definitely by the end of the year, we will have, we will actually carry licensing in all 51 jurisdictions, uh, in the United States.

[00:48:24] So we will basically, we’ll be licensed to transact everywhere. Which, uh, to my knowledge, there are less than a handful of national commercial real estate firms that, uh, that hold all the licensing. They, they typically will use, you know, a, a broker’s license in another area. Yeah, go to car us find an agent, uh, that will help you get in contact with, uh, the agent, your local market.

[00:48:44] Um, if you just feel like giving me a call, you know, you can find me there as well. I, you know, just go to Oklahoma, you’ll, you’ll see me, uh, listed down there. But this is, this is something where we, um, We were created out of, out of a need. I’m just gonna tell you a quick story of our C e o Colin, because honestly, this story says everything about our company and, and the heart behind our company.

[00:49:05] Colin worked for Colliers, which is, uh, so one of the, I think the third largest commercial real estate company in the world. He worked for Colliers from almost a decade, and he saw as a listing broker, he saw. Dentist and optometrist and veterinarians calling these four lease signs and, and, and basically calling and, and as an agent.

[00:49:23] So when somebody calls that sign, the, then, uh, you know, he calls the landlord and says, Hey, I’ve got, we’ve got a potential tenant. [00:49:30] The landlord would ask a couple of questions. First question was, what, what’s the use? You know, is this a CBD shop or is this a, uh, you know, is this, uh, donut shops, this, uh, Jimmy John’s?

[00:49:38] What is it? And uh, and he would go, no, no, this is, this is a doctor. And then the second question out of the landlord’s mouth would be, okay. So, uh, does he have any representation? The answer was always no. So the answer was no, because no, nobody in commercial real estate, nobody represents the buyer, tenant side of the transaction only, and healthcare professionals like we do.

[00:49:57] I mean, there, there’s very few, there’s very few firms that even do that. In fact, there’s only one other national firm that, uh, that represents the buyer tenant side only. And they don’t really do healthcare. They, they do, they do much, much larger, uh, things. You know, if you’re a 50,000 square foot user, then they’ll talk to you, not a 5,000.

[00:50:14] And square foot user, right? Right. And so the, we just, there was nobody out there helping physicians. And so when he would tell them, no, there’s no representation, then that landlord’s like, all right, tell ’em $35 a square foot. And then as the listing broker, he would go, oh, hey. Uh, just, just a reminder, um, the last tenant we signed there, you know, was that, uh, $28 a square foot, not 35.

[00:50:35] And he goes, yeah, I know. You said this is a doctrine. You said he doesn’t have any representation, means he doesn’t know what market is. Come 35 as a listing broker, your client, you have to be obedient to your client and so he’s just gonna go back and his job as a listing broker is to get the most money possible for your client.

[00:50:52] Well, that’s what our job is on the tenant side to get the most concessions possible for our client to, to make sure that you are [00:51:00] not paying any more than you have to on that lease and that all the terms are as good as we can get it for you because the guy on the other side is doing his job as well.

[00:51:08] So don’t fault them for doing their job. And don’t fault the landlord for trying to get as much money as possible as he can for his space, but just. Don’t, don’t be an idiot. And don’t, yeah. And, and, and do this yourself and go toe to toe with professionals who do this all day long. 

[00:51:24] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Awesome. Awesome. Jeremy, this has been a lot of fun.

[00:51:27] Okay. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. 

[00:51:30] Jeremy Burroughs: Yeah, it’s been great, Chris. Thank you so much for having me on. You’re welcome.

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