Leaving the Nest with Kathleen Pellegrino

Show Sponsors:

• CooperVision
• MacuHealth
• EssilorLuxottica

[00:00:00] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Hello and welcome to Crystal Podcast on I Code Media. Today I had a great conversation with Kathleen Pellegrino. We talked about what new employees are looking for when they’re entering the workforce. She has a podcast called Leaving the Nest, and she has a, she works in a company called Rocks. It’s a staffing company.

[00:00:28] It’s a great conversation. Please enjoy our conversation, and as always, be sure to subscribe to the podcast, write a review, share it with your friends, and support those who support us.

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[00:03:29] Kathleen, uh, the thing that I thought was interesting when, uh, your dad and I was talking was you had, uh, started a podcast and he was sort of talking about podcasting and he heard that I had done a podcast and then he was telling me about what you were doing and, and I thought it would be interesting to have a conversation related to.

[00:03:49] The types of things that you see, um, with kind of people in your generation, as you said, you know, you and I met, so probably 20 years ago, I think I was, I had to be like nine. I, I don’t think I was still in high school, but I think I was probably 19 years old, so that would’ve been like 22 years ago. So you would’ve been what?

[00:04:08] Okay. How 

[00:04:08] Kathleen Pellegrino: old? Yeah, I mean, I, I do remember that cause I was just like a little, I mean, I was. Probably, you know, 12 of seven, I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. It was, was a long time 

[00:04:18] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: ago, I feel. Yeah. A long time ago. So the, but, but, so you and I are in different generations somewhat. Um mm-hmm. But, but also it, it doesn’t feel like that in a lot of cases.

[00:04:29] Like [00:04:30] Natalie, my sister, um, you know, she is much more close to your age. Uh, and there’s a lot of things that she and I are different on, you know, that she’s a lot better than I am at, at things. And, um, so. Here’s the conundrum that I see from a profession, from my profession standpoint in optometry. A lot of independent practice owners are, um, you know, they’re looking to sell their practices.

[00:04:54] And so they’re, you know, let’s say they’re in their sixties, maybe late fifties, early sixties, and now you’re talking not just like a 20 year gap, but a 40 year gap. And so, mm-hmm. Uh, when you think about like your podcast leaving the Nest, uh, the types of things that you think about when you have a young professional coming out into the workforce, what are, what do you guys want, what do you want from your work and, and from your life?

[00:05:20] Is there a sort of a catchall thing that you guys are looking for? 

[00:05:24] Kathleen Pellegrino: You would think I, I wish it was that easy cuz it, it almost seems like every single candidate we work with wants their own indivi individual thing. Um, but I mean, overall, you know, it was just reviewing, we have a blog on our website@rockshops.com and one of the blog posts was just all about, you know, how to retain and attract kind of that entry level talent.

[00:05:45] And I mean, It’s almost like you have to adjust per the generation, you know? So a lot of companies, they’ll try to highlight their benefits, but instead of talking to a recent college grad about like your 401k plan that they probably don’t know anything about or haven’t [00:06:00] even thought about, you might want to highlight things like your culture and the flexibility that’s offered and any kind of diversity initiatives that you have in place Is.

[00:06:10] It’s definitely more about just like the feeling that somebody gets at work rather than like their actual job responsibilities or you, you know, money definitely obviously drives a lot of factors for everybody and the salaries have gone up quite a bit in the last couple years. But I think what I’ve been noticing is positions that have a little bit more flexibility or offer more room for growth or whatever it is.

[00:06:33] Um, or it’s easier to fill those rather than the ones that are just gonna throw money at somebody. Um, they’re looking at more of a. I would say like a long-term fit. I know people in our generation tend to hop around quite a bit, um, versus the older generation. But even still, you know, they kind of wanna know like, what’s the next step?

[00:06:50] What am I working towards? So that’s what really gets ’em excited and gets ’em to stay within the company once they’re hired. 

[00:06:58] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: So one of the things that I’m hearing from you is obviously there’s sort of this work-life balance that becomes really important. And one of the things that can be challenging from my perspective, even at 41, uh, and certainly guys that were before me and gals that were before me, that worked really hard to build their practices and to build their businesses.

[00:07:19] Uh, you know, some of this, I, I think what you’re talking about, Really relates to kind of the, the team members, sort of the staff that we might have in our practice, but mm-hmm. Um, I do think it relates to [00:07:30] hiring young doctors as well. And, and what that tells me is, is if we’re looking for work-life balance in, in this new generation that, that I’ve, my takeaway and, and forgive me if I’m wrong, but my takeaway has been that.

[00:07:46] The work is secondary to providing a lifestyle that you want. Mm-hmm. I would say that in our, in my generation or maybe, maybe my mentality as a practice owner, um, my goal has always been said, look, I want to focus on taking care of patients, running a good business. And if I do that well, then it will allow me to take care of my family.

[00:08:10] But one of the things I have seen, and, and again, I may be completely wrong, is that, That’s not the primary thing. It’s almost like the work is, is a secondary thing. So I can do this other stuff. And, and I’m not saying that’s a wrong perspective, it’s just totally different than, um, it is, than the way I’ve looked at things and I think a way a lot of my peers have looked at things and that’s where we miss.

[00:08:31] Mm-hmm. You know, that’s where we miss communications. 

[00:08:36] Kathleen Pellegrino: And I would say I feel like this was a huge shift with the pandemic and with Covid. Cuz before that I felt like it, the expectations were still really high to be in the office full-time, Monday through Friday, nine to, you know, whatever it is and all that.

[00:08:49] And then once everyone kind of started to learn like, okay, we can do this and there can be a little bit of flexibility or there are more things to life then just your job or whatever. I think that really hit Har like home to a lot of. Recent [00:09:00] college grads are kind of the younger, and now, you know, as we’ve kind of moved further and further away from Covid and 2020, I am noticing companies still, you know, going back full-time in the office and that’s.

[00:09:12] You know, it’s working out fine, you know, but I, I know the offices that we’re recruiting for that are still offering the flexibility on a hybrid or work from home or whatever. Just something where, like you said, has that work-life balance and people are jumping at those, you know, a lot quicker or, you know, we have, we’re recruiting for a solid position right now.

[00:09:31] Um, it’s an administrative role, but it’s a hundred percent. Wait, you said solid, 

[00:09:34] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: you said solid per position. That’s the terminology solid. Like you’re physically there. 

[00:09:40] Kathleen Pellegrino: Well, yeah, but just, you know, it’s good company, good benefits, you know. Okay. And just overall kind of checks every box is sort of what I meant, but, uh, no, that’s not, not what they’re referring to with that.

[00:09:50] We just call it like an onsite position, but, okay. Uh, you know, I had a girl today who was, you know, totally qualified for it. I thought she’d be a great fit, but she ultimately said it. Wasn’t gonna work for her because she’d rather, she’d rather take a significant pay cut for this other role that we’re recruiting for, only because that one is a hundred percent remote.

[00:10:09] So you’re absolutely right with what, how they, how they weigh their priorities, I 

[00:10:14] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: guess. Yeah. And I think that that’s interesting from my perspective too, because what, what I’m hearing you say is that there’s more value placed on a physical. Uh, uh, an employee that’s gonna physically be in the office potentially as opposed to somebody who’s gonna be completely [00:10:30] remote.

[00:10:30] Is that the case? Is that pretty customary? 

[00:10:34] Kathleen Pellegrino: Uh, you know, that’s a good question. I would say in this particular instance, it, it’s just a totally different role as far as like qualifications and what’s necessary. So that’s why the other one pays significantly less rather than it’s it being remote. I actually haven’t seen too much of a differential between.

[00:10:50] You know, onsite and ram remote as far as like the pay scale goes. But yeah, it’s, it’s interesting out there and it’s kind of just this ever-changing, moving target is what we’ve kind of discovered. 

[00:11:02] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Do you, um, so your, your company is works for, um, so like do other companies hire your company to help them identify, uh, employees or you are matching the employee to those other, uh, companies?

[00:11:19] Kathleen Pellegrino: Yeah, that actually brings up something I wanted to talk to you about too. So just a little bit of background. I work for a small staffing company called Rocks. So it stands for responsible outgoing college students. And our whole world is just filling entry and junior level jobs for companies kind of all throughout our area, but even just throughout our.

[00:11:37] Up and down the East coast. Uh, so it could be really any type of company will say, Hey Roxy, you know, we have a position for an administrative assistant. Could you help us get this filled? And then through our interview process, we’re identifying kind of the top contenders for that. Um, the only difference is some of the roles that we’re.

[00:11:55] We’re filling can be remote. And I feel like in your world, you know, [00:12:00] interacting with patients, I feel like you kinda have to be in the office. So it might be just like two totally different worlds that we’re in, but it all still kind of relates to one another.

[00:12:12] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Well, I think it, I think it relates, um, mainly because there’s this shift in healthcare where we’re trying to figure out what can be done remotely. Where, you know, um, patients are, so you brought up Covid and I, I totally agree. I mean, I, I’ve probably told this story on the podcast before a number of times, but I’ll, I’ll share it with you.

[00:12:31] You know, uh, during the peak of Covid, uh, so really, uh, April, the beginning of April of 2020 to the beginning of May in Nebraska, we, we had kind of vague regulations. So my position on it was, I’m gonna be there for patients that need to be seen. What. If they, if they want to come in, they know the situation, they think it’s urgent enough or emergent enough that that’s gonna satisfy that sort of urgencies or emergencies, suspend, you know, what they called routine care and only provide emergencies and emergencies.

[00:13:02] And so, um, so what we did was we, uh, shortened our hours from eight o’clock in the morning to two o’clock in the afternoon. I saw patients three days a week. My dad saw patients two days a week. And then I was on call 24 hours a day. And if you looked at a lot of the regulation, a lot of what occurred was that we were able to now, uh, there was this flexibility within telehealth where Medicare had really tight restrictions on telehealth services.

[00:13:28] Uh, so there [00:13:30] was not really an incentive then. It’s not like doctors have to have incentive, but they were providing if, if you had a telehealth consult that was basically completely cash pay or, or free. And most of us would just have, you know, unfortunately just. Done it for free because it was a service to our patients.

[00:13:46] And so there was also this really quick change where Medicare and other payers were responsive to say, look, we’re gonna reimburse you for these services because they are value, even though they are remote and you’re, and you’re, and so that, that really opened up a whole other kind of on-call emergency where before if you were to just take call.

[00:14:05] I had two options. You know, I had the option to have a phone call with a patient and say, yeah, I can, we can do this and triage you with a phone and then we’ll see you on Monday. Or the other one is, Nope, I really need to see ya. And now I’m breaking apart my weekend. And so, uh, so Covid after Covid, what, what?

[00:14:22] I was, so I was like, well now there’s this intermediate step where I could actually physically see patients. Through a screen like this and sort of get a sense of how bad it is. And, and I could even get good images on, on a lot, in a lot of cases to see what I wanted to see. And so it was a good intermediate step.

[00:14:37] I tell you all of that to say that I am not, um, I am not, uh, I completely understand what happened during Covid for people in the workforce. Like we designed our practice now post Covid based on what we went through with Covid. So I, I didn’t want to go back, uh, four days a week. I wanted to stay seeing patients three days a week.

[00:14:59] We decided that our [00:15:00] team, we, they wanted to be home at nighttime with their families, so we stopped seeing patients. Our last patient is at 3 45 and we’re walking outta there no later than 4 45, and most days we’re outta there by four 30. And so, uh, Monday through Friday, so. We, we did change the way that we, um, that we saw patients.

[00:15:17] The other thing I, I have seen is, Now, you know, um, you have inflation, so people are costing more, but most payers, most managed, managed care payers, you know, medical and vision, managed care payers are not, um, are not giving, uh, raises to doctors commensurate with those, with the, not even, not just not commensurate, they’re just not giving them in this, in this stage of inflation.

[00:15:41] So, as, uh, as a provider, what we are looking at is, What tasks do we do physically in the office that don’t have to be done physically in the office? So there is this, I, I do think that what you’re going through, um, our businesses may be a little bit late to that game, but we’re really starting to think about how can we hire people to work remotely to be accommodating to their schedules, but also more, maybe really more cost effective Because we can outsource a lot of that for, uh, to give people that, that want, um, To have those things remote.

[00:16:14] They, they get them remote, but it’s just they don’t, they don’t have the physical demands of patient care, so they don’t, maybe they don’t get paid as much, which helps us fight inflation. 

[00:16:25] Kathleen Pellegrino: Definitely, yeah, I mean it’s been working for employers who have started to kind of implement those [00:16:30] changes and, and like I said, I haven’t really seen too much of a difference, you know, with the clients that we’re working with.

[00:16:35] I haven’t seen them say things like, you know, we’ll offer more to somebody who comes in or offer less cuz it’s a remote position yet, but I’m sure Uno we’re headed in that direction. Absolutely. And you know, one thing I would say with entry level hire specifically, you know, just a heads up, I would say it’s important for them to be in the office.

[00:16:53] Regularly at the beginning, you know, when they’re just starting off and they’re training, they need to learn the culture and the systems and whatever, and then, you know, it doesn’t have to start off, you know, remotely. I think onboarding somebody completely remote can be challenging, but once they, you know, really, you know, learn the name of the game or whatever it is, you know, then they feel confident to be able to move on and work remotely.

[00:17:13] And then I think. Now we’ve all learned that it’s important to just be able to adjust, and covid came very quickly. I know for here at Rox, you know, we were always a hundred percent in the office and then it, it was, you know, Friday we were told starting Monday we’re working remotely. So just knowing how to adjust to that.

[00:17:29] I think we all learned a very big lesson back then. 

[00:17:33] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think it did teach a lot of lessons. Do you think people are as, I mean, I know this probably isn’t, your, isn’t what we had really originally thought we would discuss, but it comes to mind. Do you think people mm-hmm. Are, are as productive remotely in, in what you see?

[00:17:50] Kathleen Pellegrino: I think so for sure. I mean, you definitely have to keep some of them on a, a tighter leash than others, but even speaking to my own experience, you know, like I said, I, I said it a couple times, but we [00:18:00] used to be a hundred percent in the office and I was so used to that lifestyle. Then once 2020 came, you know, started working remotely and now our team does a hybrid work environment and I haven’t noticed any, like, decrease in productivity or anything.

[00:18:14] I actually think when I come into the office, such as today, the team can be almost a little distracting cause I’m working with, you know, 20 other people that are my friends and we’re chatting and we have things going on. And like this morning I came in early and I just, I couldn’t get anything done. I was just chit-chatting with the girl next to me all day.

[00:18:30] But when I’m at home, I’m just very like, You know, I’m working now, and it, it definitely depends on the person for sure. Some people have more restrict work ethic than others. You know, I’m personally not one to like have the TV on in the background or trying to do a hundred different chores at the same time as work, but there are people absolutely who take advantage or who just need to be watched a little bit, who kind of ruin it for the rest of us.

[00:18:52] But yeah. Yeah, it’s not a perfect system. Everyone’s, everyone’s a bit different, but I don’t think it’s a huge, like automatic. Thing, you know, they’re working remotely, they’re probably not gonna do as well, but everyone has their own opinions. If he called my dad back, he would totally disagree with me, so.

[00:19:07] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: So I didn’t get a chance to talk too much to your dad about, about some of those things specifically, but he’s gotta be old school, I would 

[00:19:13] Kathleen Pellegrino: guess. A hundred, right? A hundred percent old school. Yeah. We go back and forth on this all the time, and I remember when he started to go back, first of all, the man needs to retire.

[00:19:20] I don’t know what he is doing. He’s been working too hard. Retire. 

[00:19:23] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Wait. So that’s really interesting because. Yeah. But you know, you know, that’s interesting too because I, [00:19:30] I think, um, it could be that, so again, I, it could be that he just likes to do it. Don’t you think? Like, when I talk to him about it, I think he likes to do it and, and I think it gives him a purpose, right?

[00:19:42] Like that is kind of a purpose. Um, it is. You think he needs to retire. He likes to buy Jaguars. 

[00:19:49] Kathleen Pellegrino: Yeah, he could take it down a not, I guess, but yeah. Yeah. I’m glad he, he is keeping busy and he is having fun with it for sure. He definitely, it’s his passion. Absolutely. But he is old school and I remember he went back to work in the office, so, and it wasn’t even like a few days later, like one person got sick and then they passed it to this person and he was homesick.

[00:20:07] And I was like, you know, dad, if you were all working remote, you’d be working hard right now and not sick in bed. And he, he was, he made some kind of comment back to me, but it was funny. 

[00:20:16] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Do you think you’re ever gonna think like him? 

[00:20:20] Kathleen Pellegrino: I think him and I are actually really similar. Yes, I do. I think that, and actually as I, so I’ve been with Rocks for almost 10 years now and it’s been hard.

[00:20:30] It’s been an adjustment for me to see all these changes. Cuz you know, there’s a part of me that’s like, I. When I was a recruiter and I was just starting off, we were in the office and we never did lunch breaks or whatever, and now we’re a lot more flexible, but everyone’s a lot happier now. So I do struggle sometimes with my younger coworkers who are coming in and they just, they don’t know how easy they have it compared to how it used to be.

[00:20:53] But, so I am 

[00:20:54] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: my Kim. Kathleen. Yeah. Yeah, that’s, I know. We, thank you for making me realize that You’re [00:21:00] welcome. I, uh, I have a group of running buddies I’ve mentioned on this podcast numerous times, and. Um, and sometimes we get out there and I think, holy cow, I sound, I, I feel like I sound like my grandpa.

[00:21:11] You know? Um, yeah. And it’s true. I, you know, things change and I’m just trying to figure out, you know, I, I’ve always like to try to think, you know, what are those changes that are gonna occur and how do I not be just totally closed off to them? You know? And, and, you know, that’s why, that’s why I think this conversation is so helpful because.

[00:21:29] I’m thinking, all right, well, I’m trying to meet, I’m trying to meet my, my team members, uh, at the place they’re at. And part of that is a totally different place like you’re describing than it was 10 or 15 years ago when I got outta school. So what was the most interesting, like what’s the most interesting or challenging position that you’ve had to fill, uh, within rocks.

[00:21:51] And I’ve got another question related to the podcast. 

[00:21:54] Kathleen Pellegrino: Yeah, so I guess our internal team, we kind of start everybody off as recruiters so they can learn how to interview and fill positions, and then we try to transition them into more of like a business development sales position. Um, and that seems to be, you know, fine.

[00:22:11] And we, we don’t have any issues there. I would say with our clients, the toughest positions to fill right now are accounting roles for some reason have just been. Few and far between. I don’t know what’s going on with with accounting, but we used to be able to fill like staff, accountants, ar, ap, whatever we, we still are, but it’s just way more challenging, uh, to [00:22:30] find the right talent with the right background.

[00:22:33] I think there’s been a big shift in accounting, just systems and all the automation and all that, so I don’t know if that’s helping us too much, but that’s been challenging. Sales positions are always, You know, unique, finding somebody who’s okay with that, kind of like drive in the quota and the commission and all that.

[00:22:50] Um, but overall, I mean, every position has been challenging in its own way. Even just like, you know, your front desk receptionist, administrative assistant, customer service, I mean, whatever it is, it’s, each one has its own little, like, caveat as you would say, but, uh, we’ve been able to kinda. Weather the storm a little bit since it’s all we do is just recruit and we’re just constantly, we’re like a machine just kind of cranking through interviews.

[00:23:13] It doesn’t hurt us, but with the companies we’re working for are usually like small to medium sized companies who don’t have like the time or resources to go through all these interviews and post-up jobs or whatever. I, I can’t imagine how, how they’re getting jobs filled when they’re not, you know, working with some other additional resources.

[00:23:30] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: What are um, what are kind of the best types of questions to ask during an interview of a candidate? 

[00:23:37] Kathleen Pellegrino: Yeah. You know, there’s a, the typical ones, right, you tell me about yourself. You’re, you know, tell me what would your supervisor say about you? But I think the ones that I’ve always enjoyed asking are just kind of digging deeper into kind of their passions, what we were talking about earlier.

[00:23:52] What, like, what, one of the questions that I love asking is what are the top three things you’re really looking for in your next job? Because it’s very, you can quickly [00:24:00] tell where their priorities are at. You know, if they say, I wanna jump in salary, or I want a close commute, or, I don’t want a manager who micromanages me.

[00:24:08] You can kind of just see like what’s really gonna help them feel comfortable and create the environment that they would thrive in. Um, so just kind of almost, you know, you don’t want to. Give a new hire. Everything they, you know, they’re, they shouldn’t be entitled to everything, but just kind of knowing what would keep them engaged and happy and I guess like satisfied in their job.

[00:24:28] It is helpful to know more so than like, what are your weaknesses? So, 

[00:24:31] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: yeah. Well, yeah, because everybody is gonna respond by like, my weaknesses working too hard, my, my, you know what I mean? Like, 

[00:24:38] Kathleen Pellegrino: they’re turn something 

[00:24:39] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: that’s, that’s perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I’m just too perfect. My, my, yeah.

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[00:26:44] That made me wonder about, um, yeah, like when in that interview process, is it, is it wise to ask about like, where do they see themselves in. Six months, in six years are, are there, are there things that can be helpful as a, as a [00:27:00] business owner, um, or a, a hiring, uh, entity to get information about the longevity of somebody within the practice or even knowing or within the, the job or knowing, uh, what that person is gonna need to be satisfied or those types of questions?

[00:27:16] Because somebody’s life is always in flux. You can’t really know, or they, they can’t give you accurate answers to. 

[00:27:22] Kathleen Pellegrino: I’m glad you said that because it really is tough, tough to tell. And I always have to tell my clients, I’m not a mind reader. So, you know, the candidate sitting here telling me they, they love this job.

[00:27:31] They’ll accept, accept right away. They want, you know, to work here forever or whatever. But then if you fast forward a few months, sure. You know, their, their husband’s getting relocated or they decided to go back to school. It’s just like we never really know and we never placed somebody into a position.

[00:27:47] Knowing they’re going to law school next year or knowing they, this is just a stepping stone for them. But at sometimes it’s just truly hard to tell, uh, what, what is gonna happen. And like I said, we are not mind readers and we’re working with people and people are unpredictable. So that can be tough. It doesn’t hurt to ask, cuz sometimes it can be pretty telling, especially if they’re applying for one position and then you ask them where do they see themselves in two years?

[00:28:12] And it’s something totally different. I mean, it’s good to know those things, but. Sometimes what I’m finding is some employers are overthinking it a little bit much, and we’re really big on just giving people the opportunity, hiring them based off their potential rather than, you know, their past. Cuz they’re mostly entry level anyway.

[00:28:28] But yeah, [00:28:30] it can be, it can be tough sometimes. You just have to take a chance. 

[00:28:33] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Yeah, yeah. I mean that’s the, that’s the thing I always want to think about is like I’m, when we hire people, I. I generally look at them as like, I want them to be with us for a very long time, and so mm-hmm. The, the kind of question that’s probably the wrong question, and I don’t usually ask it, but it’s going through my mind, is I just wanna sort of cut to the chase and be like, look, We want, we want to hire you, but I need to know what you want to be hap, like, what’s gonna make you happy in six months and what’s gonna make you happy in like three years.

[00:29:02] I don’t ever ask this, but I always wonder, like, maybe I should just ask that because like, you know, like you’re saying, well maybe it just helps them clarify. Maybe they don’t even know, you know, maybe they, they’re not even thinking about it like you’re saying. It’s like, well, maybe they’re looking at the income, maybe they’re looking at the benefits, maybe they’re looking at the hours, you know?

[00:29:19] But, I, I can’t really know. And, and, um, so anyway, that’s just one of the things that I’ve, I’ve never, I don’t think I’ve asked, um, but I always think I want to, but it might not just be the best question, that’s all. I mean, I don’t know, because what do I, what I have to do to make you happy, you know, because Right.

[00:29:35] As an employer, I want you to be here for a while. Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:39] Kathleen Pellegrino: It is a popular question. I mean, just where do you see yourself in the next couple years or, you know, one thing that a lot of employers do is they’ll look at, you know, their job history. Just, you know, cuz we do, I come across so many job hoppers and I’m gonna sound like my dad again, but I’m clearly not.

[00:29:53] You know, I’ve been with Rock since I graduated. It’s okay. He’s a nice guy. He is a nice guy. Um, but I’m [00:30:00] just, it amazes me how often people are, Jumping from job to job and they’ll do it for just, you know, a few cents more here, a couple dollars more in their hourly pay or whatever. I mean, it doesn’t take much.

[00:30:10] Yeah, it is crazy. Um, and I feel like there’s just no, unfortunately there’s no clear question you could ask to prevent that or whatever. I mean, I think more so cuz you can only tell so much in an interview and any candidate is always gonna tell you whatever you wanna hear in an interview cuz they want the job.

[00:30:26] But I think what’s more important is once. You decide to take a chance on them and you hire them, just kind of checking in with them regularly. I mean, even more than quarterly, we do kind of like monthly check-ins here. That might be a little, little much, but just every so often, you know, grab them, set ’em aside, talk to them about, you know, their job satisfaction, how things are going.

[00:30:45] Or even if you did an anonymous survey, you might get. A little bit more intel if it’s anonymous. But things like that I think are more important than the interview questions because everyone’s gonna be, I mean, their minds are in a million different places, and things change so often. I mean, I was just talking to a, a.

[00:31:03] Coworker today we’re like Q1 January. Like we were both killing it and then things have kind of like fallen off and it’s been harder to fill jobs. But I know, you know, our job has a lot of ups and downs, but mm-hmm. If you had asked us in January, like, how’s, how’s the job going? It’s going great. I love it.

[00:31:19] This is awesome. And now you ask us in like April May, it’s like, well, you know, it’s challenging. I’m, I’m frustrated here and there. And so I think just kind of checking in with your team on a regular basis mm-hmm. Is gonna be way [00:31:30] more telling than any sort of interview question. 

[00:31:33] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Then, um, so your company, you work with all types of businesses all across the country, is that correct?

[00:31:41] Kathleen Pellegrino: Mostly the up, like up and down the East coast, but all, yeah, you’re right, all the kind of industries, all different sizes. Uh, so, uh, we work a lot of associations, nonprofits, those are big for us. Property management has been, I mean, but really any kind of industry, which is, which keeps it interesting. Yeah.

[00:32:00] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: And so if you, if if, if somebody were to hire, so let’s say there was a doctor listening on the East coast and they needed to hire a new receptionist, they could contact your company and you would basically go through sort of a pre-interview process and screen candidates. Is that right? Or would you actually select the candidate?

[00:32:15] Like, I understand your job so well, what you’re trying to fill that, we’re gonna do all that for you. 

[00:32:22] Kathleen Pellegrino: Absolutely. I would say the answer is both mo more times than none. Companies will like us to just narrow it down and, you know, we’ll, we’ll screen them. We’ll go through the interview process with rocks.

[00:32:32] We have kinda like a multi-step screening press on us on our end before we send them to you. Um, and then we basically just, instead of when you open your inbox and you’re looking at 200 applications, you’re looking at like, Two or three applications of people. We’ve already interviewed them. We know they’re a good fit.

[00:32:48] We’ve talked to them about, you know, the practice and what the job entails and they’re excited. And then we can just help out with the coordination too, which is, you know, cuz it’s a headache to go back and forth. Like, I’d like to meet with you, when are you [00:33:00] available? I’m available this time. That time. So we take as much off your plate as you want.

[00:33:03] There are clients that just say, Hey Rox, I need somebody. Send me your best person to start next week. And we’ve done that too. Usually that comes with time. We have to build credibility, but that. With that new account. But, um, more times than none, it’s just we’re here to kind of narrow it down for you and help with all the back and forth, but then we want our clients to make the, the final say.

[00:33:23] And for somebody to just employers to know this, I, I think it’s helpful to do an interview. We’re kind of away from the times where we could just say like, this person’s hiring you can start on Monday. They really wanna kind of vet them out themselves and make sure it’s a good fit for them. So it’s almost a red flag to job seekers when.

[00:33:40] You know, you don’t get an interview and you just get somebody started. 

[00:33:44] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: What does that tell What, like, we would never do that, but why is that a red flag to job seekers? Like what do they, what do they see when you do that? 

[00:33:53] Kathleen Pellegrino: Yeah, I think they’re just, sometimes when you, you have to find the balance, cuz when your interview process takes too long, then that’s a red flag because it’s just like, you know, why am I going through three rounds of interviews, don’t you, you know, can’t you hire me now?

[00:34:06] Or whatever. But then when you go too fast, they’re kind of like, you know, I haven’t met anybody, I haven’t seen the office. I don’t know what any anything’s like, I don’t know if I’m gonna like this. So sometimes it just kind of catches them off guard when you. Because we used to do that all, all the time.

[00:34:20] And now it’s like you have to at least do some sort of touchpoint, like at least a phone call or something so that they know it’s, and I, that may be become, like, that might be because of all the, [00:34:30] the scammers out there and all the different mm-hmm. Things. Um, I think that’s really picked up in the last couple years.

[00:34:35] You really have to kind of prove yourself a little bit. But Yeah. Um, I think it’s more so just like the turnaround time. You, like I said, finding the balance between, don’t wanna take too long, but if you go go too fast, they might. You know, take someone else a little bit more seriously. 

[00:34:50] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: You brought up scammers.

[00:34:51] You mean like people that are, that would take like a remote job or multiple remote jobs? What do you mean by that? 

[00:34:58] Kathleen Pellegrino: Well, I was just saying because you know, right now it’s so easy to get scammed in every way. I mean, I know a lot of employers are getting scammed on their end with remote workers. I was just talking to a client about that last week.

[00:35:09] You know, or somebody says they’re one person, they’re not, or they completed their degree, but they actually didn’t. There’s a lot of that going on. I guess on the job seeker side, I just think, you know, go show up to this office. They’re expecting you at 9:00 AM on Monday. Right. Just kind of that, that fear of the unknown.

[00:35:25] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you, I, you don’t, I don’t even think about that stuff, although I should. Okay. So I wanna change gears and give you a chance to talk about your podcast. Um, so when did you start the podcast? 

[00:35:38] Kathleen Pellegrino: So, yeah, to bring up Covid again. Um, you know, COVID was definitely a down downtime in our business.

[00:35:44] You know, not as many people were hiring, if at all. So, uh, here at Roxy we were working remotely and just really took the time to evaluate, you know, our company and what else we could do to offer and, and add resources and. I was interviewing a girl for a [00:36:00] financial internship opportunity and she asked me the, like, the sweetest question.

[00:36:03] She just said, can I wear like open toed shoes to my interview or is that bad? Like, should I wear flats? And it was just kind of like cute that she just didn’t know like the, the proper way to dress for an interview. And it just kind of like hit me like a, a light bulb there cuz I used to, the joke for me is that I used to not like podcasts.

[00:36:20] I used to think like, who would listen to this? Or, you know, it sounds like when you’re on the radio and you’re just looking for the next. Song, right? Nobody wants to listen to people talk. And then I got really into podcasts. But you got older like your dad. No, I’m not like that. I’m not totally like my dad.

[00:36:35] Um, I’m not that old. Uh, no, but yet, yeah, I’m getting there. You know, one day at a time. One day. One day. Yeah. Uh, but. Yeah, so I just kinda like came up with the idea of just providing another resource for our recent grads to turn to, and it’s been a lot of fun. Just, you know, we have like a Nest newsletter, so the name kind of goes hand in hand with that and, It’s kind of a two-part podcast where episodes that I put on myself are kind of what we just talked about, like how to dress for an interview, how to follow up, how to get a professional headshot done or whatever.

[00:37:07] And then I really like having the opportunity to speak with business leaders and just having them share their story about how they got, you know, where they are today and how they’ve been able to be successful and what it was like leaving the nest for them. So, uh, it’s been, it’s been a ton of fun. 

[00:37:22] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Yeah.

[00:37:23] Yeah. I mean, my, my short, my story is not dissimilar. Um, mostly, mostly it was just I liked, I did [00:37:30] like having, uh, long form conversations with people. Um, and I’ve tried that. What’s interesting to me is, is that I sort of bo bounce around. I could sit and have really long conversations. But there is a sort of finite number of people that can listen to really long conversations.

[00:37:46] I like it, but, but some people just won’t when you look at the data. Mm-hmm. Um, so I’ve, I’ve just shortened them, um, to kind of tighten them up a little bit, but they’re still probably longer than most podcasts. But anyway, yeah. I mean, it’s just, it was fun to do. I, and, and, um, I started doing it. I actually really had the idea in 2015.

[00:38:04] This is crazy, it’s 2015, but I didn’t really execute it until 2019 and it was the very first week of 2019. And, um, and so I had had a whole year, more than a year before Covid hit. And I’ll tell you like it, it kept me sane during Covid because I was still able to communicate with people. Uh, that we’re going through the same thing.

[00:38:26] And if you go back and listen to those episodes, Kathleen, you will, you will hear the gravity, like the weight of what was going on in my voice. It is really crazy. Yeah. And so I still, every now and then go back and listen to some of those episodes. Not the whole thing, but just to like, what was I thinking about and was I off base and how off base was I?

[00:38:44] And anyway, um, yeah, it’s, uh, it’s been fun. It’s been fun. Uh, so Right. Let, I, I know you and I have some other conversations offline, but, um, if people want to reach out to your company or wanna check out your podcast, let ’em know where they can go. [00:39:00] 

[00:39:01] Kathleen Pellegrino: Absolutely. Yeah, so I’m definitely active on LinkedIn, so anybody can find me there.

[00:39:05] I’m sure you’ll be able to link it for me, but I’m on there as Kathleen Pellegrino. I, I always say my pellegrino’s still my stage name, but I did, you know, my, my maiden name is still what I use for work and stuff. So it’s Kathleen Pellegrino on LinkedIn and then the podcast can find it on all the major platform sites.

[00:39:23] Uh, it’s called Leaving the Nest. That has like a little bird on the logo there. Um, and then definitely feel free to give us a call here at rocks. It’s r o c s, uh, here in Northern Virginia, but we can recruit all over. 

[00:39:35] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Awesome. Thanks. Thanks a lot. 

[00:39:38] Kathleen Pellegrino: Said, I’m excited for, for today and everything. It’s good to see you guys telling Chris has been obviously a really long time, but I’ve heard so much about you guys and your family.

[00:39:46] I talk to your mom a lot, so yeah. Has it 

[00:39:49] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: been 20 years? You haven’t seen her since then? Since, no, I 

[00:39:51] Kathleen Pellegrino: saw her at two. Funeral. Oh yeah. Good for him. But good to see you. Yeah, good to see you too. 

[00:40:02] Dr. Christopher Wolfe: Okay. Say bye-bye mid. I’ll go up in the tree house in a minute.

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